Widescreen Gaming Forum

Thank you for the reply! I'm glad to see that you're well informed on the subject, and I'm also glad to hear that you've had experience with other curved setups. I've actually argued this issue on the Internet (arguing on the Internet? never) in which the other party, also focusing on curved displays, decided to call me out for pointing out the geometric issues with it. So again, thank you for being completely aware of the limits. I'm also glad to hear that you've done research into modifying game engines to fit better. This sounds like an awesome potential piece of tech and I'm excited to see what it might lead.

Since we're already going to be dealing with wild FOVs and warping with the support coming from the Rift, which by design tears the interface away from the world so that the two are now separate entities, do you supposed some of your curved-screen support might make its way into this sort of system automatically with Oculus Rift development?

I also foresee the Razer Hydra benefiting from this, I'm mostly hoping for a sweeping change in the way that graphics engines are handled, so maybe we can start seeing support for more accessories or strange setups in general.

Again, this looks super awesome. If you want a beta tester, let me know. I have a Steam library with over 500 titles ready to be tested.

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While we are obviously tracking the progress of Rift, I don't imagine any overlap at present. The Rift is very low res, with the 720p screen being divided in two, half for each eye.
On the other hand, games made for Rift may indeed include some new and useful parameters, both HUD and FOV wise.


The Hydra does look interesting, especially if you were standing up in a FPS, and certainly cheaper than an omni-directional treadmill! We've got one on order...


I'll keep you in mind

Cheers!

I would HIGHLY Be Interested in th 180degree with 3D setup..

IF using a curved screen as someone may have already pointed you you need warping software and I have the perfect solution it is called nThusim..you can check out that sight and the multiple curved screen setup thay have there along with mine I use the same name here as there..

I had looked into the trident as nice as it is it is really expensive.. I am hoping this solution will be in the relms of cost effective..

I just dont see it happening.. the material you are talking about for a Rear preojection is costly then you will need first reflection mirrors.. I dont see how this is going to be an cost effective sloution..

I really hope I am wrong but to get a good rear projection you need the proper material.. I am unsre what type of material you are talking about I hope it is not spandex..

I will kkep this blog linked to keep up with the progress and hopefully see it come to pass..

Hope you can also address some of my concerns..

I've been working on exactly what you are trying to do for a couple of years.
My youtube page has some shots of what I've done: http://www.youtube.com/user/VanFS3K

Short throw is also my goal, but its harder than you think.

I haven't purchased my final projectors yet, just test units. Some 1080p LED projectors come out this fall that I'll have my eye on. The plan is to have 5x of these in portrait. I've learned the best setups of projectors for this kind of thing is either 2 in landscape or 5 in portrait (16:9 or 16:10).
3 projectors in landscape is just too wide, so you'll either lose horizontal real-estate because the screen sizes are too small or most of the vertical screen will be out of your vision because the screen sizes are too big.

Let me know if you have any questions.

PROJECT UPDATE
Finally we have our large bed laser cutter installed


..and tested...


This means we can build begin building physical prototypes.

I can reveal we've opted for the LUXCINE C7 for our initial test set-ups. As well as being affordable, LED (20000+ lamp life), it features diamond shaped pixels and a virtually invisible grid. The result being you can hardly detect any pixels at all. Another pleasant surprise has been that despite it's 500 ANSI Lumen rating, it's plenty bright enough at the 100" screen-size we envisage for the Infintx D, but also under controlled lighting can drive a MUCH bigger screen if you have the room to spare. For example a 3m diameter, 2.4m high screen- That gives you space for 6 people, or a full-sized car or cockpit.

BRAIN STORMING...

(NOTE: The following is just an idea we would like to discuss, and not necessarily a design proposition.)

One or the most obvious challenges with Widescreen set-ups, that everyone runs into, is the "side stretching" of graphics.
It's a widely misunderstood phenomenon and therefor fills considerable pages on this very forum.
http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=14082
If you want to see what I'm talking about here's a simple demo.
http://www.strombergindustries.com/newPerspective/

...and if you don't have Flash installed here's screenshots.


When you set your FOV for a game to an extreme value (100 degrees plus), you will generally see objects distorted towards the edges. They appear elongated.
This is not an error, but actually because of the mathematical precision of the 3D engine.
If you try the above demo, with your nose up against your monitor (actual distance depends on monitor size), you should notice that the ball looks round from center to extreme left/right, as you are looking at it from the angle it was calculated from. The camera in the 3D engine, the place where the view is calculated, is at that point in 3D space, not way back where you typically have your favorite gaming chair. So why don't they move the virtual camera out to a more natural viewing position? Because that automatically reduces the field of view, which is the reason you lashed out on a triple head in the first place. Here's the simple, illustrated explanation.



So why rake over that age old problem?
We're looking for the optimum shape for the infinitx screen. There's nothing to say it has to be a regular arc. There was an idea to make a flat middle monitor with curved "wings". We're already bending the output image so as to appear correct on the cylindrical screen, why not go a stage further and distort the image to look natural on the screen from a human perspective, rather than mathematically correct, from a flat computer monitor perspective.

It would be possible to build a reflector system that shows a 16:9 area normally in the center of the screen, but then gradually bunches the image up towards the edges, while bending them inwards, compensating for the exaggerated field of view.
In theory at least, that would give you a set-up that shows non-widescreen titles and movies correctly, and super wide fields of view in a more natural looking way.

The screen would look something like this. The checker pattern shows how the wings gradually compress the edges to keep round objects round, when set to the appropriate FOV.





If that makes sense to anyone, I'd be glad to hear about it. Also if it's completely off the mark.

Cheers!

As I mentioned above, 3 in landscape is too wide. Even though it mostly depends on the games scaling capability, you almost always get the "fish eye" effect with 3 projectors. Unless you plan on creating a room with 180 degree projection, avoid using 3.

Wow, 2 posts while I was writing that one

Nephalim > There is no software warping involved here, though you would have the option of edge blending if you need it.
We have invented and patented a mirror array that takes care of that, and costs less than most warping software. The benefits are that it is compatible with all versions of DirectX, OpenGL, and doesn't add lag to the rendering pipeline.

Screen tech is low reflection acrylic, coated with high contrast, light dispersion polymer to remove hotspots.

We are making larger screens in 180 degree format. This particular model is designed for desktop gaming. So far 110 to 135 degrees seems the most popular choice for that application.

Snipe 3000 > Cool stuff
I think maybe we can help on the short throw issue. The screen described here uses a projector with 1.22 throw ratio (not very short throw) and still manages to pack it into 36cm depth. Our larger displays will use genuine short throw projectors (0.5 - 0.7 throw ratio), and manage a depth of 60cm, for a 4.5m wide screen.
The light folding reflectors take care of warping. Aspect ratio is affected, but can be easily rectified.

There's a bit more info about where we're coming from on this thread. Unfortunately half the thread got wiped in the last db crash, but you should get the idea...
http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=25274

Cheers

I'm very curious to see this work with more than one projector. It would definitely be nice to not need the software. The software's biggest problem isn't price, its compatibility. I have two of them just in case one has an issue with a certain game.

It seems you are using mirrors? Most high quality rear projection screens are glossy on the back side, not completely reflective, but there is still some reflection. How are you guys compensating for this?

I think the following would work better for your "build up as you go" players:

Make all parts modular and then offer them both individually and as packages (possibly with discounted costs). Since this is for the advanced gamer, but will still be easier than building your own H2O cooling setup, it shouldn't be too hard for the people that will actually buy this. Like most gamers, you don't just go out and buy four video cards at 500 bucks a piece, you buy two and then get a third on another paycheck, and a fourth on another.

For instance:

Part Codes break out by revision series and type
P = Projectors
R = Reflectors
S = Screens
1 = Revision 1 (in a few years, maybe do a revision 2 with new technologies)
17 = 17" Size (where applicable, otherwise just extending the next value)
0: last digit (or last 3 digits if size isn't applicable) be an individual part number

Part P1000: Projector LowRes, LowQual $50
Part P1001: Projector LowRes, MedQual $75
Part P1002: Projector MedRes, HiQual $250
Part P1003: Projector HiRes, HiQual $500
Part R1000: Reflector $50
Part S1170: Screen, 17" 4:3 $25
Part S1171: Screen, 17" 16:9 $30
Part S1190: Screen, 19" 4:3 $30
Part S1191: Screen, 19" 16:9 $35
Part S1230: Screen, 23" 4:3 $50
Part S1231: Screen, 23" 16:9 $60
Part S1270: Screen, 27" 4:3 $80
Part S1271: Screen, 27" 16:9 $90
* Prices are estimated, scale to whatever you need to cover costs.

17" 4:3 setups are cheap
Bundle B1170: Single Monitor 4:3 17" setup, includes P1000 x1 ($50), R1000 x1 ($50), S1170 x1 ($25) = $125 - $5 group discount = $119.99 Retail
Bundle B1171: Triple Monitor 4:3 17" setup, includes P1000 x3 ($50x3), R1000 x3 ($50x3), S1170 x3 ($25x3) = ($125x3=375) - $25 group discount = $349.99 Retail

27" 16:9 setups are expensive
Bundle B1270: Single Monitor 16:9 27" setup, includes P1003 x1 ($500), R1000 x1 ($50), S1271 x1 ($90) = $640 - $15 group discount = $624.99 Retail
Bundle B1271: Triple Monitor 16:9 27" setup, includes P1003 x3 ($500x3), R1000 x3 ($50x3), S1271 x3 ($90x3) = ($640x3=1920) - $50 group discount = $1869.99 Retail

This way you can cookie cutter setups together, people can start with 1 or 2 monitors and work their way up to 5 if they want. Screens should have an individual adjustable arc method, using a knob to apply tension (like a bow string bending a compound bow, but obviously not). This way if they can adjust each side however they want to suit their visual needs. In my case, I would probably want flatter middle and more curved sides.

What projectors have you looked into? You mentioned $3000 projectors, but the Dell M110 is designed for short throwing, can do 1280x800, is LED based and is only $419 retail. I'm sure that if you turned this into a major design you could get them cheaper through a Dell partner program.

Have you considered doing an OLED screen instead of rear projection? Grow it to a size/width that would be three monitors and just have a single flowing screen without messing with rear stuff? I don't know how far the technology has progressed on this...

I would be interested in one of these displays. When will they be available for sale?