Widescreen Gaming Forum

I wonder why companies assume that unsuccessful pirates are going to buy anything at all ...
if a robber can't steal a TV, will he buy it instead ? well he might just buy a lower end TV because he don't have the money for the one he wanted to steal ...

Or he might buy the one he wanted to steal because he *did* have the money, but would prefer stealing to paying. And when you're talking about piracy, the most convenient, accessible, and low-risk form of stealing ever, this scenario is clearly going to be pretty common.

when you steal you don't really care about reviews and how much you are going to enjoy said product since it's free, when it's not free anymore, you care a lot more ...

Unless you're trying to argue that every single would-be pirate is going to turn to reviews and decide "nah," then this isn't a conclusive point at all. Nobody's assuming that every pirated copy represents a lost sale, but some of them do.

however I think that maybe just maybe they should instead try to find more creative ways to make their product more enticing

More enticing to who? To pirates? Ubisoft doesn't owe the pirates anything. If your core product alone is "enticing" enough that people want to have it, nobody should be forced to go above and beyond that just to compete with thieves. Competitive practices are for promoting your product above other brands. Not illegal versions of your own product.

even if actual cracks aren't fully working, it will get done eventually and who cares about waiting when it's just "free" ?

A lot of people can't wait.

I can see what you're trying to get at, however most thieves just want more than they have, it's very visible in France where the poorest worst "group of skycrapers" pulled together create a lot of unhappiness and criminality ...,
how many persons are actually rich AND thieves ? yes I know the problem actually exist but this kind of deviant attitude isn't as common as poor unhappy people trying to get things they can't ... (poor means money less, not anything more in case you wondered ...)

No, I'm not trying to argue that every single would-be pirate is going to turn to reviews and decide "nah," however this is still a conclusive point. How many people are going to regularly buy products without giving it any thoughts when a lot of previous products didn't satisfy them ?
I bought games without giving it any thoughts in the past, I don't do it anymore because I experienced games I didn't play more than a couple of times ... (dominions 2 ...)

Of course I know that "Nobody's assuming that every pirated copy represents a lost sale". Yeah but the question is : how many wannabe pirates are going to buy instead of steal if they can't pirate it ? overall I guess this is very dependant on mentalities and therefore on countries ...

however I think that maybe just maybe they should instead try to find more creative ways to make their product more enticing

More enticing to who? To pirates? Ubisoft doesn't owe the pirates anything. => don't just assume things out of what I said please, k, thanks ... the answer here is : to potential customers whatever group they pertain to.
If your core product alone is "enticing" enough that people want to have it, nobody should be forced to go above and beyond that example : galciv2 still sells well... therefore stardock still dedicates a small part to updates/additional content and the trend seems to continue... Whatever way one look at it, whatever is one's opinion of stardock and its manager, one can't deny that this is an example of a successful win/win business strategy(aka customers win/company win) http://forums.galciv2.com/374871

A lot of people can't wait. of course...

how many persons are actually rich AND thieves ?

If you're able to pirate a game, then you probably have access to enough disposable income to afford luxuries such as a gaming class computer and broadband. The games themselves aren't that much further to reach.

How many people are going to regularly buy products without giving it any thoughts when a lot of previous products didn't satisfy them ?

Again, your question is too selective to prove any meaningful points. What about all the people who would pirate AC2, can't, and *do* give it thought and then buy it? You aren't considering them, and yet, their existence would be a point in favor of this DRM.

Yeah but the question is : how many wannabe pirates are going to buy instead of steal if they can't pirate it ?

As long as you acknowledge that some would, you vindicate the "companies that assume that unsuccessful pirates are going to buy anything at all."

the answer here is : to potential customers whatever group they pertain to.

My point still stands. Pirates who want the game but don't feel like paying would be one of these groups, and a considerably large one. You shouldn't have to do ANYTHING to "entice" them further.

example : galciv2 still sells well... therefore stardock still dedicates a small part to updates/additional content and the trend seems to continue... Whatever way one look at it, whatever is one's opinion of stardock and its manager, one can't deny that this is an example of a successful win/win business strategy

Stardock really isn't a "treat customers right to fight piracy" trump card. GalCiv2 is a very low budget game, but it occupies a rather specific niche with little competition. These conditions don't apply to mainstream developers with full budgets, and strategies that work under one set of conditions might not work under more normal conditions. Nevertheless, NOBODY should have to suck up to customers in order to beat piracy. In order to make the product more desirable than the legit competition's, sure, but not to beat or even to compensate for piracy.

Nevertheless, NOBODY should have to suck up to customers in order to beat piracy.

Yeah, you're absolutely right... I mean, what happened to the idea that "the customer is always right"? Oh, yeah, it is dead and buried in the name of profits! And treating customers like criminals does not endear them toward you...

But ultimately, most of this has come from the generation of 'always on' internet. When people had dial-up, it happened, sure... but nowhere near to the same degree. The other thing is that the size of games hasn't really increased in recent years - it hit DVD size, and didn't really grow. 7GB is nothing, really.

I'm fascinated by the PS3, myself - it probably holds the record for longest uncracked console. Whatever anyones personal feelings in the "console war" they really need to give Sony credit for an anti-piracy solution which seems to work, despite having early PS3's capable of running what some would argue is a hackers dream OS - linux. Some of that is to do with Blu-ray, but not all of it by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, you're absolutely right... I mean, what happened to the idea that "the customer is always right"? Oh, yeah, it is dead and buried in the name of profits! And treating customers like criminals does not endear them toward you...

That really doesn't have anything to do with my point. As for treating customers like criminals, that's just the reality of the situation - it's quite common for any given PC game to have more than a 50% piracy rate. The only way you could truly discriminate between customer and pirate is to take a more active approach, and gaming companies are too scared - they'd sooner abandon PC gaming entirely in favor of consoles.

The idea that pirates would never buy games if piracy never existed is the silliest anti-DRM statement anyone can ever make.

It's just ludicrous.

That said, I agree flogging paying customers is not the best tactic when there is no point to it, like SecuROM and Steamworks which do not stop piracy but do annoy many paying customers. This Ubisoft DRM though is so far working... it's hard for me to tell them to stop using DRM that actually works, at least for now.

A couple of hundred € are enough to begin gaming on a decent grade computer ? (and play AC1 decently)
that's hardly anything out of reach even if you don't earn a lot (at least in France)... buying games is sure not out of reach either, but then it depends on quantities too ... plus there's the black market... I mean when I was young I was pretty naïve so I didn't understand it, but I happened to have the possibility to buy computers which as we say here "fell from the truck" (aka stolen...). I didn't buy one in the end which is fortunate since I didn't really understand that the whole thing was illegal including anyone buying one ...

Again, your question is too selective to prove any meaningful points. What about all the people who would pirate AC2, can't, and *do* give it thought and then buy it? You aren't considering them, and yet, their existence would be a point in favor of this DRM.

Fact is, it's a question, it's open in its nature because there's no answer...and yes those people exist too...

As long as you acknowledge that some (pirates) would (buy it), you vindicate the "companies that assume that unsuccessful pirates are going to buy anything at all."

I'm sorry it seems this sentence of mine lacked precision so I'll rephrase : "companies that assume that enough unsuccessful pirates are going to buy anything at all to justify pissing off customers and therefore losing some of them"

You shouldn't have to do ANYTHING to "entice" them (pirates) further.

then it's too bad because it's a valid business strategy, if you entice pirates to buy your game, you fight against piracy. a sale is a sale, if someone cares about who buys their product maybe they should do something else.

I would also like to add that pirates are kicking themselves in the foot ... I mean if piracy was reduced by half, game budgets could sky-rocket
and who knows what great games could come out of that ? games that could profit

Stardock really isn't a "treat customers right to fight piracy" trump card.

never said or implied anything like that...
in fact I saw several customers pissed @stardock for different reasons ..

As for treating customers like criminals, that's just the reality of the situation - it's quite common for any given PC game to have more than a 50% piracy rate.

you know it reminds me of two supermarkets of the same brand in two different locations near my home, supermarket A treats customers ok, supermarket B treats them like shit... // A is located in an ok suburb, B is located in a suburb with lots of "poor" skyscrapers
I never go to supermarket B anymore...

A couple of hundred € are enough to begin gaming on a decent grade computer ? (and play AC1 decently)
that's hardly anything out of reach even if you don't earn a lot (at least in France)... buying games is sure not out of reach either, but then it depends on quantities too

There you go. Buying games is not out of reach. As for quantity, the general idea is that if have a limited budget for luxury items, you figure out which ones are worth the most, and buy those first. Stealing whatever you can't afford is not part of this idea.

then it's too bad because it's a valid business strategy

Giving freebies to Mafia thugs in order to discourage them from smashing your storefront is also a "valid business strategy." But it's unfair to say that they should resort to appeasement when they are threatened by criminals.

yeah sure of course, stealing IS bad ... but people will always try to get what they can't, for some that implies going against laws/order/morality or whatever ...

Giving freebies to Mafia thugs in order to discourage them from smashing your storefront is also a "valid business strategy." But it's unfair to say that they should resort to appeasement when they are threatened by criminals.

hum... the analogy doesn't perfectly match since in games/pirates cases you would be giving the so called "freebies" to everyone, not just pirates....
plus you could perfectly include said freebies from the start in your initial budget plan ...
too many games projects have a very low initial patching budget for example ...
thus why so many games are left buggy... no wonder PC gaming is on a bad trend ...

This all ends in government action over the internet.

That's the truth, sadly.

Look at the UK right now: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/03/17/britishers-unite-for-internet-justice/

Human's can't control themselves, they need punishments and authority or it's anarchy.